tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8785859730868628316.post7222409104888395483..comments2024-02-10T01:22:29.316-08:00Comments on Hugo Stiglitz Makes Movies: Question of the Day: Most Underrated Scorsese Picture?Kevin J. Olsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17275402809912728035noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8785859730868628316.post-67026102603379111322014-01-13T19:50:50.546-08:002014-01-13T19:50:50.546-08:00Raging Bull is a masterpiece.Raging Bull is a masterpiece.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8785859730868628316.post-56072065861799126152009-08-06T13:50:37.568-07:002009-08-06T13:50:37.568-07:00Hard to say for me what his most underrated film i...Hard to say for me what his most underrated film is. I know when someone says Scorsese, people immediately think of GOODFELLAS or RAGING BULL.<br /><br />But for me, I think of AFTER HOURS and ALICE DOESN'T LIVE HERE ANYMORE. I count those more as underrated because they aren't obvious Scorsese films. THE KING OF COMEDY as well.<br /><br />Overrated? That's easy. THE AVIATOR, KUNDUN, GANGS OF NEW YORK and CASINO just don't do it for me. I liked THE DEPARTED, but I wasn't in love with it.Cinema Du Meephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07945241807461396451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8785859730868628316.post-23967207752498412132009-08-06T13:49:15.003-07:002009-08-06T13:49:15.003-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05969069078180603146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8785859730868628316.post-3413315143895643792009-08-05T19:40:20.043-07:002009-08-05T19:40:20.043-07:00I'd say the most underrated is also my favorit...I'd say the most underrated is also my favorite Scorsese, 'Life Lessons' I count it as a feature since it's 61 minutes long or so. It's one of my favorite (if not my favorite) films about the process of painting. Painting (you'd think) would be very hard to film and make interesting-- yet Scorsese makes (IMHO) his most impressive visual film. If you are familiar with Dostoyevsky's 'The Gambler' you'll like it even more. <br /><br />rounding out his top 5 'underrated' is 'Kundun', 'Age of Innocence', 'After Hours' (I'm STILL obsessed with Linda Fiorentino because of this), and 'Cape Fear' (in my opinion is most 'entertaining' film-- it blows 'The Departed' away). <br /><br />overrated 5 are, 'Gangs of New York', 'The Avaitor', 'Goodfellas', 'Casino' and 'The Departed'. I am so so on 'Bringing out the Dead' i'll watch it as it is a Scorsese, but i'd watch about 8 or 10 of his others first.Jamienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8785859730868628316.post-20717662430553780452009-08-05T14:57:49.490-07:002009-08-05T14:57:49.490-07:00Tony:
Makes sense Tony. Thanks for clarifying. ...Tony:<br /><br />Makes sense Tony. Thanks for clarifying. <br /><br /><br />J.D.:<br /><br />After what you've written here I am definitely adding this to the top of my Netflix queue. Great stuff from you as always.Kevin J. Olsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17275402809912728035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8785859730868628316.post-25282367096484010102009-08-05T13:36:20.376-07:002009-08-05T13:36:20.376-07:00Kevin J. Olson
Yeah, you should check it out. It ...Kevin J. Olson<br /><br />Yeah, you should check it out. It has aged quite well, I think. It's one of several films that has been percolating in the back of my brain for a potential post on my blog.<br /><br /><br />Tony Dayoub:<br /><br />I agree that COLOR is an unnecessary sequel to THE HUSTLER but that being said it is still an enjoyable film with top notch performances. As for Newman's Felson being different, I kinda think that's the point. When we catch up with him in COLOR there's been a lotta water under the bridge and Felson has probably seen some hard times but managed to break even somewhere along the line. He's more comfortable in his skin. More confident about who he is and his limitations and Newman nails that vibe so well. Plus, I love the relationship he has between Helen Shaver. The scenes between them are excellent and I can almost imagine a whole other film that just follows them around. I also like how Scorsese draws attention to the generation gap... like how Felson is disgusted when he notices that one of his flunkies (a nice bit part by John Turturro) does cocaine. And, as always with Scorsese, the soundtrack is killer.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08164105442273577128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8785859730868628316.post-17234770225360582482009-08-05T10:59:53.666-07:002009-08-05T10:59:53.666-07:00I don't mind films with meta-narratives. But ...I don't mind films with meta-narratives. But I prefer not to be thinking on the meta-level while watching the film.<br /><br />If a story is engaging on a human level, then with deeper analysis later I am able to find more going on in the margins of the text, it is then that I think a picture succeeds.Tony Dayoubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04632329277519635858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8785859730868628316.post-70219952745682862122009-08-05T10:35:24.036-07:002009-08-05T10:35:24.036-07:00But it rings a little too meta for me.
I'm in...<i>But it rings a little too meta for me.</i><br /><br />I'm intrigued by this statement. Do you dislike meta-film, or do you just feel that a meta-narrative story doesn't quite fit the type of film <i>The Color of Money</i> is (or is paying homage to)? <br /><br />I will agree with you that <i>The Hustler</i> is (obviously) the superior film. It's been so long since I've seen <i>The Color of Money</i>, though. I really don't remember much about it. I need re-watch it again.Kevin J. Olsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17275402809912728035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8785859730868628316.post-86207063381726879942009-08-05T10:30:03.724-07:002009-08-05T10:30:03.724-07:00Though I like Color of Money, I think the problem ...Though I like <i>Color of Money</i>, I think the problem some of us old fogeys have with it is that it was an unnecessary sequel to a superior film, <i>The Hustler</i>. And Newman's Felson, to my mind at least, seems so different from his original performance... I know what they were going for, Newman now has to train Cruise who is a hotshot like he used to be in the first film. But it rings a little too meta for me.Tony Dayoubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04632329277519635858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8785859730868628316.post-72638976255535139302009-08-05T10:12:24.288-07:002009-08-05T10:12:24.288-07:00Ed:
Looks like you and Tony are in agreement abou...Ed:<br /><br />Looks like you and Tony are in agreement about "Life Lessons". I need to see that ASAP. I have heard nothing but great things, and you're right, it shouldn't be forgfotten merely because it's a short. Some of the best writing I've read from Faulkner, another great American master of his field, are his short stories...and certainly things stories like "A Rose for Emily" or "Barn Burning" or "The Bear" aren't forgotten. Short works should be recognized just as much as features or novels.<br /><br /><i>After Hours</i> was mentioned earlier, too. I'll have to watch that one again. I really hated it when I saw it in high school. <br /><br />A lot of people have been throwing around <i>Raging Bull</i> as most overrated...I find this interesting. I know that overrated in this conversation doesn't equal "not good", but I've always found that the praise that film receives has been more than warranted. I would love to hear some arguments against the film from all of you who claim it's overrated. I'm intrigued. <br /><br />I can see why you think it's turgid...I mean the film is certainly Scorsese's most operatic and in-your-face, but I think that style befits the story Scorsese wanted to tell about LaMotta -- kind of Greek tragedy in the Bronx.<br /><br />Thanks as always Ed for stopping by!Kevin J. Olsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17275402809912728035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8785859730868628316.post-84561064462837622562009-08-05T10:05:36.344-07:002009-08-05T10:05:36.344-07:00J.D.:
Nice call with The Color of Money. I haven&...J.D.:<br /><br />Nice call with <i>The Color of Money</i>. I haven't seen that in a long time. I always think of that film being received much like <i>Cape Fear</i>, your choice for the most overrated picture, as nothing more than commercial fair with big stars and nothing else going for it. Newman is memorable in the role, and I've always thought that Cruise is a somewhat underrated actor (when he's motivated). I also like what you say about Price's dialogue and Ballhaus' camera...great thought, there. I'll have to re-watch this one soon.<br /><br />Thanks, J.D.!Kevin J. Olsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17275402809912728035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8785859730868628316.post-45221734466539232652009-08-05T10:02:34.821-07:002009-08-05T10:02:34.821-07:00Yaeli:
Thanks for a stopping by and commenting! ...Yaeli:<br /><br />Thanks for a stopping by and commenting! I love what you say about the terms "overrated" and "underrated" being context dependent. When I thought of this question I was thinking in terms of what do cinephiles think of his work. Surely his most overrated film is something along the lines of <i>Gangs of New York</i> or <i>The Departed</i> because they received so much hyperbolic praise <i>before</i> their release. <i>The Departed</i> is called a masterpiece by a lot of people, and it hasn't even been 5 years since its release.<br /><br /><i>The Age of Innocence</i> was highly praised upon release, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it has been underrated or forgotten. I think a lot of people, like the mention of Scorsese's short "Life Lessons", dismiss (or disregard) that film because it's not your 'typical' Scorsese picture. I definitely think it's underrated.<br /><br />I love what you say about <i>Goodfellas</i> and that magnificent ending. However, I think a lot of us here think that within the context of Scorsese's oeuvre, <i>Casino</i> is the better, and less appreciated, film. But I certainly agree with your assessment of that final sequence. It's a masterpiece in editing.<br /><br />I agree with you 100% about <i>Gangs of New York</i>. I never understood the appeal of that movie. I actually found it kind of boring the first time I saw it, but subsequent viewings have me warming up to it.<br /><br />Thanks for contributing!Kevin J. Olsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17275402809912728035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8785859730868628316.post-54755747809210600242009-08-05T07:12:18.082-07:002009-08-05T07:12:18.082-07:00Great question. I love Scorsese, but I tend to val...Great question. I love Scorsese, but I tend to value different movies than a lot of others. My favorites are <i>After Hours</i> and <i>King of Comedy</i>, both small, intimate psychological films. I think <i>After Hours</i> in particular is one of his most underrated, as most people tend to consider it a minor work, perhaps because it's not as dark as Scorsese's more often talked-about films. I also really like <i>Bringing Out the Dead</i>, which is surely underrated, but that one <i>is</i> a minor pleasure, more akin to <i>The Departed</i> than anything else.<br /><br />Another film that I think a lot of people like but probably doesn't get mentioned much because it's a part of an anthology, is <i>Life Lessons</i>, his contribution to <i>New York Stories</i>. It's almost a tribute to Kenneth Anger in its style, and it boasts great, substantial performances by Nick Nolte and Rosanna Arquette. It shouldn't be forgotten just because it's a short.<br /><br />As for overrated, <i>Raging Bull</i> strikes me as turgid in comparison to the vibrancy of Scorsese's best work. I know that's an unpopular opinion, but what can I do?Ed Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18014222247676090467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8785859730868628316.post-42766455975315314842009-08-05T06:29:02.806-07:002009-08-05T06:29:02.806-07:00Most underrated? I'm gonna say COLOR OF MONEY....Most underrated? I'm gonna say COLOR OF MONEY. Yeah, Paul Newman won the Oscar but among Scorsese fans it doesn't get nearly the love it deserves. Aside from Newman's wonderful performance, Tom Cruise is actually quite good as the cocky pool hall punk who gets schooled on the road with Newman.<br /><br />Richard Price's screenplay crackles with great dialogue... like the bit where Newman's character bets Cruise that he can pick up a girl at the bar in a certain amount of time and teaches him a lesson about "human moves." Not to mention, the camerawork by Michael Ballhaus is fantastic. He really conveys the dynamic energy of pool playing and follows the balls as they zig zag around the table during various matches.<br /><br />Overrated? Hmm... CAPE FEAR. This always seems to be on TV and was a huge commercial hit but is such an unnecessary remake as the original was brilliant and did not need to be remade or updated. And Robert De Niro, while disappearing into the role, his character is just a caricature.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08164105442273577128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8785859730868628316.post-62802763533734235642009-08-05T04:39:54.321-07:002009-08-05T04:39:54.321-07:00Overrated and underrated are very complicated, con...Overrated and underrated are very complicated, context dependant, terms. It's true that THE DEPARTED got an Oscar, but I never got the impression it was really considered to be a masterpiece. It was simply the year Scorsese got his Oscar.<br /><br />Also, I was always under the impression that THE AGE OF INNOCENCE was highly praised, so I can't say it was underrated. I'll give the general underrated award to THE AVIATOR, which had a very special feel to it and seems to have been forgotten. In terms of setting atmosphere, CAPE FEAR and KING OF COMEDY are both great films as well.<br /><br />Speaking of context, I must note that GOODFELLAS is the most underrated movie in this comments thread, yet it is my favorite Scorsese movie. It's got perfect rhythm. The sequence at the end, when he's got his brother cooking in the kitchen while the FBI helicopters are in the sky and his wife and him try to get rid of the drugs and the guns – that's perfection.<br /><br />I never understood the appeal of GANGS OF NEW YORK, so this would be my overrated choice.Yaelihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14955013223111841145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8785859730868628316.post-31768529117930423472009-08-04T19:01:33.744-07:002009-08-04T19:01:33.744-07:00Tony:
It seems like a lot of people here think th...Tony:<br /><br />It seems like a lot of people here think that <i>Raging Bull</i> and <i>Goodfellas</i> on the list for overrated movies. Personally, I think a lot of the praise for <i>Raging Bull</i> warranted, but you're right about <i>Casino</i> being better than <i>Goodfellas</i>.<br /><br />I'm glad you mentioned Scorsese's "Life Lessons" segment. I haven't seen it, but I have heard great things. I need to add that film to the queue. I'm glad you mention the two films I feel most strongly about as being the most underrated: <i>Age of Innocence</i> and <i>Bringing Out the Dead</i>. <br /><br />Thanks for commenting, Tony.Kevin J. Olsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17275402809912728035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8785859730868628316.post-9422248999105770402009-08-04T18:41:03.011-07:002009-08-04T18:41:03.011-07:00IMHO, here's the rundown:
Most Underrated: Ag...IMHO, here's the rundown:<br /><br />Most Underrated: <i>Age of Innocence</i>, <i>Bringing Out the Dead</i>, <i>Casino</i>, and I don't think anyone has mentioned it here yet, but "Life Lessons," his segment for <i>New York Stories</i> was incredible.<br /><br />Most Overrated: <i>Goodfellas</i>. It is a great movie, but I frequently see it listed among the best films of all time, and it's not that. <i>Casino</i> IS better for one thing. And next to <i>Raging Bull</i> and <i>Taxi Driver</i>, two other films often found on those lists, <i>Goodfellas</i> comes in a distant third.Tony Dayoubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04632329277519635858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8785859730868628316.post-69959016191718276802009-08-04T18:23:34.435-07:002009-08-04T18:23:34.435-07:00Tommy:
Great call on After Hours. I know Ebert l...Tommy:<br /><br />Great call on <i>After Hours</i>. I know Ebert loves that movie. I didn't much care for it the first time I saw it, but I was just a punk high school kid then who thought every Scorsese movie was supposed to be like <i>Taxi Driver</i> or <i>Goodfellas</i>, hehe. Imagine my surprise when I watched <i>New York, New York</i> and <i>The King of Comedy</i> when I was 17, hehe.<br /><br />I'll have to give <i>After Hours</i> another shot. As you say: "Hello Netflix". Haha.<br /><br />It does seem that <i>The King of Comedy</i> is gaining momentum from cinephiles around the blogosphere as a favoritre Scorsese picture. <br /><br />I think <i>Gangs of New York</i> is a good choice for most overrated, considering all of the hype surrounding that picture pre-release.<br /><br />Thanks for stopping by, Tommy.Kevin J. Olsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17275402809912728035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8785859730868628316.post-19286891199546523072009-08-04T18:18:59.886-07:002009-08-04T18:18:59.886-07:00Krauthammer:
I liked The Departed, too. But we&#...Krauthammer:<br /><br />I liked <i>The Departed</i>, too. But we're talking about Scorsese's most overrated or underrated films, here, so even though it may sound like some of us are ripping on a movie, I think it's just in comparison to the rest of the master's oeuvre. I like that you call <i>The Departed</i> "pulp fun" which is exactly what it should be taken as.Kevin J. Olsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17275402809912728035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8785859730868628316.post-90068733855423511412009-08-04T18:17:21.494-07:002009-08-04T18:17:21.494-07:00David:
I like your comparison between what Shutte...David:<br /><br />I like your comparison between what <i>Shutter Island</i> looks like and what <i>Cape Fear</i> was. I think it will be a fun departure for Scorsese.<br /><br />I love <i>Kundun</i>, and have forgotten about <i>Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore</i>, so I can't really comment on whether that is overrated. I need to see it again.Kevin J. Olsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17275402809912728035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8785859730868628316.post-76882982071538570122009-08-04T18:15:32.073-07:002009-08-04T18:15:32.073-07:00Jason:
I hope you give Bringing Out the Dead anot...Jason:<br /><br />I hope you give <i>Bringing Out the Dead</i> another chance. I think it's one of his five best films. Interestingly enough I think the one film you point to as being forgotten or underrated, <i>The Aviator</i>, got the same treatment in 2004 that <i>Bringing Out the Dead</i> received in 1999. I think <i>The Aviator</i> is sandwiched between two of Scorsese's most overrated films, and I guess they're overrated because of all the media hype that surrounded them. You're right, though, about <i>The Departed</i>...it seems that film was destined to greatness before anyone had seen it. <br /><br />I too love <i>Casio</i>...in fact I prefer it to <i>Goodfellas</i>.<br /><br />Thanks for contributing.<br /><br />(Oh, I'm about half way through your Mann conversation with Ed, and I am just eating that thing up...I'm going to let it marinate for a few days, then I'll comment.)Kevin J. Olsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17275402809912728035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8785859730868628316.post-33591009274555874722009-08-04T18:02:04.927-07:002009-08-04T18:02:04.927-07:00I'm gonna say After Hours, which wasn't ev...I'm gonna say After Hours, which wasn't even mentioned yet. Bringing out the Dead is one of my favorites as well.<br /><br />King of Comedy's genius has been realized now that celebrity is less dazzling to us; Casino got slammed because it was DeNiro and Pesci as gangsters again, but it's one of my favorite films. So beautiful to watch.<br /><br />Overrated is definitely Gangs of New York. The Aviator gets some blowback from this, but it's a much better picture. I haven't seen Kundun yet for some reason. Hello netflix.Thomas Pluckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17008022962076648740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8785859730868628316.post-61677959433132850472009-08-04T18:01:23.003-07:002009-08-04T18:01:23.003-07:00I actually like The Departed, it's pulpy fun w...I actually like <i>The Departed</i>, it's pulpy fun which works wonderfully with its broad strokes.Krauthammerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14426806666095796310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8785859730868628316.post-88301878931390867582009-08-04T17:58:31.998-07:002009-08-04T17:58:31.998-07:00As for SHUTTER ISLAND, I think it looks like Scors...As for SHUTTER ISLAND, I think it looks like Scorsese in CAPE FEAR mode, meaning it should be better than standard Hollywood schlock and pretty damn entertaining, but it doesn't look like Oscar bait.<br /><br />I think Scorsese's most underrated film is KUNDUN. I would go as far as to call it a masterpiece (or a near-masterpiece at least) and it is completely unlike anything he has ever done.<br /><br />For his most overrated, that's a hard call...would it even be fair to say ALICE DOESN'T LIVE HERE ANY MORE? Most people don't even mention that in his canon of films -- but I never understood the appeal of the film or of Flo's "Kiss my grits."David H. Schleicherhttp://davethenovelist.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8785859730868628316.post-29579309041786402592009-08-04T17:52:16.346-07:002009-08-04T17:52:16.346-07:00Goody! A question of the day. And a good one. Alas...Goody! A question of the day. And a good one. Alas, my answer won't live up to it...<br /><br />I'm tempted to say his most overrated film is <i>Bringing Out the Dead</i>, mainly because I had no attraction to it at all and I'm stunned it has a kind of cult following. In fairness though, I've seen it once and it deserves another chance. ("It deserves another chance." Don't say that often about a Cage flick.)<br /><br />Beyond that, I think <i>Raging Bull</i> and <i>Goodfellas</i> are somewhat overrated, but they shouldn't be punished for staying in the argument for so long. So I'll go with <i>The Departed</i>, which has its moments but was wildly overrated from the get-go.<br /><br />Most underrated (I did these out of order, damn...) ... that's even harder. I think <i>Casino</i> is his best film, but since few would agree with me, maybe that's my answer. I would also like to say though that for all its immediate hype <i>The Aviator</i> seems on its way to being forgotten, and it's a better film than that.Jason Bellamyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18150199580478147196noreply@blogger.com